As part of Kelly’s regular Friday Writing Exercise, she interviewed Andy Bagwell, co-author of the newly released Duke Sucks: A Completely Evenhanded, Unbiased Investigation into the Most Evil Team on Planet Earth. Kelly, by the way, is one of the most fervent UNC fans I know…she regularly wears light blue face paint while typing her blog posts. Judge her as you will.
If you live in the South, or if you like men’s college basketball, then you are likely familiar with the UNC/Duke rivalry. The two schools are just 25 minutes apart if you travel down what news commentators refer to as Tobacco Road, and they boast two of the best basketball programs in the country, with nine NCAA titles between them.
With these two schools close enough for students to frequent the same bars on the weekends, the rivalry gets pretty intense. Much has been published on this great rivalry and today we’ll talk to Andy Bagwell, co-author (with Reed Tucker) of the book Duke Sucks: A Completely Evenhanded, Unbiased Investigation into the Most Evil Team on Planet Earth.
The authors derived the book topic from their podcast “Tarheel Bred, Tarheel Dead,” a podcast designed for UNC basketball fans. Obviously, they’re passionate about their subject matter, so I talked to Andy about how they translated that passion into a marketable book. (Which relates to the writing exercise at the end of this short interview.)
So let’s get to it! Duke fans, we still love you—proceed with the usual expectation of healthy rivalry, snark, and comments about Coach K’s otherworldly hair.
KELLY: I asked Andy to describe the book in general so that we could know what we are dealing with here:
ANDY: This book is more than just why UNC fans hate Duke. Heck, we’re supposed to. But the thing is, all sorts of people hate Duke. It’s universal. With that in mind, we wanted to find out why that was. What is it about Duke that makes them hated everywhere? Is there anything real behind it or is it just “haterade?”
So we did a lot of research into the reasons that people give for hating Duke: They flop; they get all the calls; they’re rich, white elitists; Coach K dies his hair; etc. From there, we did more research.

We talked to former non-Duke basketball players, people in the media that cover Duke, former ACC refs, and then dug into the stories that we had heard over the years. We laid all of these things out like a court case, bringing “charges of suckitude and then making the argument based on our research as to whether or not they were guilty of, well, sucking.
We ultimately try to tie all of this together in the end to see if there is one over-arching theme. We are simply laying out the facts and then let the readers decide for themselves if they agree with us. To the Duke fans out there, we even come to some conclusions in their favor. You’ll be surprised by what we found out about Coack K’s hair and we give them a pass on the relative attractiveness of their cheerleaders. So basically, that’s it. All done in a humorous way.
KELLY: How did you and Reed decide to do the UNC basketball podcast? Did you research whether there was a niche in the podcast “market,” or was it just something you were passionate about?
ANDY: Reed looked around and found that there was no such thing as a true fan-driven podcast for UNC Basketball fans. We wanted to re-create the feeling of sitting around the living room or at a bar or such and just talking about the Heels. So it was both a need that we felt wasn’t being served and we are clearly passionate about it.
KELLY: What kinds of things do you talk about on the podcast? How do you fill your time during the off-season, too?
ANDY: During the season, each podcast consists of the top three topics that are on the minds of UNC basketball fans that week. We also have one other oddball topic/segment that could be anything from a quiz, to rating the players like stocks, to talking about whether or not it is okay to make fun of an opposing player’s unibrow. And then we end every podcast with a segment called “Why Duke Sucks” and it’s a new reason every week. In the off-season, we’ll do monthly shows that might be about various topics: recruiting, NBA players, post-season recaps, pre-season prognostications, and we’ll bring in a guest or two.
KELLY: Why did you start thinking about moving from the podcast to writing a book together?
ANDY: The book obviously grew out of the closing segment of the podcast. In coming up with a topic for each week, we started to see that there was a LOT of material out there. And it was literally one of those, “Hey, we should write a book or something about why Duke sucks.” And away we went.
KELLY: Can you briefly describe how you wrote the book together, especially since you live several states apart and both work full-time jobs?
ANDY: The process was fairly straightforward. To start, we compiled a long list of “charges,” then split up the topics one by one. We each wrote an essay on that topic complete with research that we had done (quotes from articles, interviews, etc.). Then Reed, being the professional writer and all, would clean mine up where needed. We would then talk regularly about how things were going, compare notes and look over each other’s work via email and Google Docs. It was very collaborative.
KELLY: Where in the process did finding a publisher happen, and how did it happen?
ANDY: The easy part for us was that Reed already had an agent that he had been working with. We initially put together the book proposal and ran it by her. At first, we thought we should only shop it to some small niche shops and didn’t figure that it would go past that. However, the agent had a notion that it might play to a larger audience and sent it out to all of the big publishing houses. We got some decent responses right off the bat.
As luck would have it, right around the time it was sitting on the desks of these publishers, a national news story hit the media about Duke. Jalen Rose, in a documentary about his playing days at Michigan, referred to Duke players as “Uncle Toms” and talked about how much he hated Duke. This caused a firestorm nationally. The publishers suddenly realized this was a universal topic. We then got a small offer, and about a week later a larger one, and voila, we had a book deal. We now have Jalen Rose on our Christmas card list.
KELLY: What advice do you have for aspiring writers who want to turn a passion or hobby into a book?
ANDY: It’s so cliché, but write what you know. If you are passionate about something, it’s likely that there are several people out there who are just as passionate as you about the same subject. Try and have a unique take on it. We didn’t want to just spout off the tired old stories that everyone tells about Duke. We wanted to get to the facts and see if there was anything there. Also, get Jalen Rose to say something stupid about your topic on national television.
KELLY: Finally, a word to our Duke fans, who probably find the title less than flattering. What is it about the Duke men’s basketball program that inspires UNC fans to spill so much ink and ire?
ANDY: As I said before, we actually give Duke a pass on some of these charges and make a suggestion in the end for how to improve their standing. I will also say that some of the Duke fans that I have talked to welcome the book. They know that it’s all part of the fun of the rivalry. This isn’t Auburn-Alabama. We aren’t purposefully killing legendary trees. And if they don’t like it, we just laid out the blueprint for their own “Carolina Sucks” pamphlet (see what I did there?). Just don’t forget to send us a royalty check for the title.
Today’s Writing Exercise:
So readers, regardless of what side of the Duke/UNC argument you come down on (including the indifferent side), your writing assignment this week is to examine your life and decide which passionate interest could turn into a publishing opportunity for you. Stephen King wrote an excellent book about the art of writing, so even dedicated fiction writers can do it. Think about what you like to do with your time. Maybe you love flea markets. Maybe you are a superb chef. Maybe your friends ask you to let them borrow clothing before you hit the clubs because you put together the best closet full of cool stuff on a college budget. Everyone has a talent to share. Why not share it in writing?
Jot down a few paragraphs about what your talent is, how you do it, and why it’s a viable publishing idea. Maybe you will find that your passion, combined with a little writing about it, is a strong enough combination to motivate you to go further down the path toward publishing.